Disgruntled Supporters of a Burned Pop Tart

[Shane2]

back off...? by that I'm assming you mean stop commenting on your comment? If you didn't want anyone to comment on it then why oh why did you put it in the public forum?

[Daria]

Actually, I do lurk here occasionally, and I've heard all about your opinions. I already know that anything I say won't change your mind and vice versa, which is why I wasn't posting here with the intent of getting into it with you.

I didn't post here "expecting" anyone not to comment. I posted here simply to express agreement with some of what the original poster said. That was when you told me to keep out of the conversation if I didn't want to listen to differing opinions, don't you remember?

You've reminded me why I usually choose to lurk in these places, rather than actively contribute. Mostly, it's a waste of typing. No one ever agrees, or even agrees to disagree. They just go round and round in circles.

[Shane2]

Well, I think it's very rude to state your opinion and at the same time state that the opinion of anyone else is of no interest to you, but if you chose to behave like that, that's your choice.

I already know that anything I say won't change your mind

? Thats a stupid thing to say.

I didn't post here "expecting" anyone not to comment. I posted here simply to express agreement with some of what the original poster said. That was when you told me to keep out of the conversation if I didn't want to listen to differing opinions, don't you remember?

.

Yes I do remember...it was like 3 miutes ago. I was just wondering why you were telling me to back off. You posted an opinion,  I responded, you tell me to back off, so I say, if you didn't want anyone INCLUDING me commenting on your opinion then why post it on a public forum?

You're respose is that you've heard all about my opinions? I on't know what that supposed to mean, but I'm willing to bet that you know very ittle about my opinions.

I happen to be very interested in your opinion, an the opinion of ootb, and limelight, and Erica, and Jordi. But if any of these people choose to share ther opinions, I expect them to have the courtsey to listen to mine. I can't demand it, you dont have o give me that cou rtseyif you don't want to. So anything else you want to comment on, I'm all ears and I'll do my very best never to share a opinion with you that differs from your own.

[inthelimelight]

Daria...

Quit Lurking and speak up against the naysayers. I feel like I had "lurked" enough and no one was standing up for being positive and supportive.  All I read was how horrible Deborah had become from these people who know her personally about as well as I do. If they can say bad things... then I can say good things to counteract the negativity. 

Deborah's career still has some kick left in it.   There will always be haters and there have always been since 1987.  Some fans are like dogs...they will turn you as soon as you quit feeding them.  I think Deborah is sick of some her fans and rightly so.  Some of them are straight up bitches.  (No names were mentioned.  If you respond and argue, maybe you fall into the category of these whiny pathetic losers...we should call the "Electric Douches" instead of Debheads.  That is what they have become).

This is not an argument about Deborah being perfect and it isn't an argument about what she did or didn't do to a fan.  It is about the actions of some of the board members, comments by them, and uncalled for personal remarks about another person.  It doesn't have to be that way.  I know it won't stop.  I just didn't see anyone telling them that they were spewing stupidity.

Thanks Daria.... support is always a great thing.

[Dariusz]

Could you please not turn this thread into a personal slanging match of "you're an idiot", "no you're an idiot". It's not productive to winning an argument, and kind of childish.

[Dariusz]

Actually, I do lurk here occasionally, and I've heard all about your opinions. I already know that anything I say won't change your mind and vice versa, which is why I wasn't posting here with the intent of getting into it with you.

But unlike a certain un-named forum, you are all allowed to post that view and (99.9% of the time) not get kicked off the forum for expressing a view. Whether someone agrees or does not to someones viewpoint, that's their problem.

As I had just posted earlier in this topic, people slagging each other off is childish and does not advance an argument.

[Shane2]

Daria...

 Some of them are straight up bitches.  (No names were mentioned.  If you respond and argue, maybe you fall into the category of these whiny pathetic losers...we should call the "Electric Douches" instead of Debheads.  That is what they have become).

Are you refering to me there?

This is not an argument about Deborah being perfect and it isn't an argument about what she did or didn't do to a fan.  It is about the actions of some of the board members, comments by them, and uncalled for personal remarks about another person.  It doesn't have to be that way. 

Thats a fair point limelight, but let me put it to you another way.

I whole-heartedly disagee with they way Jordi was treated by Deborah. I was very very dissapointed with Deborah's decision to pose for playboy. And I'm dying for a new album and (like the rest of us) getting more and more inpatient as the years role by.

Those three things have caused people to label me Judgemental, I have been told I have "Victorian Values". I have been told that somewhere in my head I think I have a relationship with her, that I held her as some kind of virgin madonna figure, that I'm not a real fan, that I'm negative, that I think Deborah owes me something...NONE of which is remotley true. I'm on a discussion board voicng my opinions, sharing my frustrations and reactions to Deborah's career with fellow fans.

It feels like if someone says a single negative thing about Deborah, Diane, DGIF, or If someone disagrees with Deborah's actions (her PUBLIC actions, not her private actions) then the vittriol and sheer nastiness from.

Deborah is not perfect, and I want to be free to discuss her imperfections with fellow fans, just as I'm free to discuss her remarkable talent with other fans. I would LOVE to go into the Jordi episode a little deeper because I have a few theroies, but here, if I dare to mention it, without expressing my support for Deborah's decision, then all hell breaks loose, people twist my words, label me Judgemental, or Victorian for daring to critisize Deborah.

I know I'm a real fan, I know Erica is too, and I feel I speak for both of us when I say the way we're labelled by other fans for airing our opinions on a public fan forum is shocking.

In this post alone, I was told to "back off"...by Daria for what? for airing my opinion.

I don't have to agree with everyone here, but I've been posting here for years, people like Daria can say they have "heard all about my opinions" and without saying it we all know, if we're honest, what she's implying.

As for you Limelight, I disagree with you, I've been frustrated by your reluctance to skip over the issues I've tried to raise, and I think your method of teaching people respect is, at best, flawed. But I do understand your point, I don't necessarly agree with it 100% but at least you'll engage, explain yourself and give people the right to reply.

I'm growing weary of having to untangle myself from a web of labels simply for expressing an opinion on the Jordi issue, an issue I feel VERY VERY strongly about,. I know that dosen't make me less of a fan, I know that dosen't make me Judgemental, and whether or not my values are Victorian I feel I have a right to critisize Deborah's public actions on a public fan forum, supplied by a fellow fan, without being labelled, attacked and critisized for my clothes or any birth defect I may or may not have.

I have not wandered in off the street to critisize an 80s has-been. I have been a fan for 20 years now (fuck somebody STOP THE CLOCK) and I won't be pushed away simply because some people dont like what I have to say.

[Daria]

In this post alone, I was told to "back off"...by Daria for what? for airing my opinion.

Um, no, that's not why I asked you to back off. I asked you to back off because you told me to do you the "courtsey" of keeping out of conversations that are based on a difference of opinion.

I don't have to agree with everyone here, but I've been posting here for years, people like Daria can say they have "heard all about my opinions" and without saying it we all know, if we're honest, what she's implying.

Paranoid, much? All I was implying was that we share differing viewpoints. In my initial response to inthelimelight, I didn't mention anyone's names. I have never seen you at a stagedoor or event (as far as I know), so I certainly wasn't talking about you. You took offense to my "not wanting to hear differing viewpoints". That's it. Finito.

Daria...

Quit Lurking and speak up against the naysayers. I feel like I had "lurked" enough and no one was standing up for being positive and supportive.  All I read was how horrible Deborah had become from these people who know her personally about as well as I do. If they can say bad things... then I can say good things to counteract the negativity. 

I respect your desire for "no, no more... negative energy". I love that you wanted to inject a dose of reality into this place. History has shown me, though, that in any fanbase, you can't sway anyone to see it from your side. From what I know of DG, she is no more horrible than I am. She's probably less horrible than I am. But, a saying I quote a lot these days is the one about opinions and assholes. You know how it goes

(For those of you on the offense, the saying goes "Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has them and most of them stink." To be clear, I'm not calling any of you an asshole. I feel I must clarify lest I get dragged into another back and forth.)

[Shane2]

You weren' dragged into anything Daria. You joined in.
 And I asked you to pay people the courtsey of ether listening to them, or butting out of the conversation. To come into a conversation, say you're piece and not be interested in anyone else's viewpoint is out of order. Your reaction...telling me to back off.

Now you've been dragged into a back and forth?..no you haven't. You joined in a conversation and I responded and on and on in went..no-one dragged you into anything.

No you've never seen me at a  stage door (unless you were at Grease in London in 93) and no you didn't name anyone. No-one ever does name anyone, it's all "certain people this" or "certain people do that"...whats that about? Why don't you just say who you're talking about?

[Erica]

My god I have not seen such mud throwing since the Ohio Primary when Obama and Hillary were slinging mud at each other.  Maybe we all should just agree too disagree on this one because we all have our own opinions.  No need to get personal over things.

Erica

[Daria]

You weren' dragged into anything Daria. You joined in.

I joined in to reply to the first post on this long post. I apologize. I made a mistake, obviously. A big one, since I continue to respond.

And I asked you to pay people the courtsey of ether listening to them, or butting out of the conversation. To come into a conversation, say you're piece and not be interested in anyone else's viewpoint is out of order. Your reaction...telling me to back off.

By "people" you mean "you". And as I already said, I lurk. I've read many of your posts. I think I've listened enough. I didn't actually butt in to anything since I didn't address anything you said in my first reply to inthelimelight. As I said in the beginning, I didn't think a private message was necessary. What aren't you getting here?

Now you've been dragged into a back and forth?..no you haven't. You joined in a conversation and I responded and on and on in went..no-one dragged you into anything.

Now we're talking semantics. I think you just like arguing.

No you've never seen me at a stage door (unless you were at Grease in London in 93) and no you didn't name anyone. No-one ever does name anyone, it's all "certain people this" or "certain people do that"...whats that about? Why don't you just say who you're talking about?

I don't think I said specifically that people on this board were the ones making fools of themselves with DG, nor do I presume to know the names of every psycho - or sane person - that shows up at a stage door. I don't think it's too far of a stretch to imagine two-faced actions from fans. It happens at every stage door, with every celebrity. You seem to think my response was directed at or about you, when I said no such thing. So calm down and go play in the sandbox with the other kids. I think I'll go back to lurking and stop wasting my time here, where everything is taken a bit too personally.

[Shane2]

Yeah, go back to lurking. We'd both be happier.

[inthelimelight]

You should lurk more often Shane2.

[Dariusz]

You weren' dragged into anything Daria. You joined in.
 And I asked you to pay people the courtsey of ether listening to them, or butting out of the conversation. To come into a conversation, say you're piece and not be interested in anyone else's viewpoint is out of order.

This is a public forum, emphasis on the word public. That means anyone here is free to butt into any conversation and comment on it - that includes people who mostly lurk and not just the regular posters here. If you don't like people commenting on public conversations, then don't make the comment in public. You can't pick and choose who will reply to a comment.

[w0ls0n]

Damn guys. I personally think all of you are nuts. This forum ought to be shut down. The way you guys/gals talk about Deb yet you call yourselves supporters - ridiculous. You guys are the people that make us look bad to her. I hope Deb doesn't look at these posts.

I listen to Deb and I love her music. I have been listening to her since OOTB. I fully support her in whatever she decides to do.

The whole Playboy incident is just ridiculous. People saying their not going to be fans because she appeared for a one-time thing in it just is beyond me. Who cares what she does as long as she is happy with herself?

The Jordi incident = One crazed fan trying to meet Fiction with Reality. Cmon man what did you think you were going to do? Hang out and write songs? He went beyond the line when he went to her house plain and simple.

Oh and I have not had a chance to meet Deb yet. :-)

Always a fan,

Bill